Mieszko Zabiełło’s bastards
Grażyna 1761
why the gap? well he was away at school for a while
Wojsław 1765
Mieczysława 1766
Sławka 1768
Mieczyk 1769
Juruś 1769
[Alicja 1769]
Mestek 1770
Maja 1771
Maryjenna 1774
Marysieńka 1775
Mirosz 1775
Marianna 1777
Marina 1778
It is Maryjanna, not Maryjenna. Maryna is Polish version of Latin name Marina. I am a bit astonished at Mieczyk, literally little sword or a name of a flower. Where did you find it? Is a diminutive?
ReplyDeleteok
DeleteMieczyk was one of the diminutives of Mieczyslaw given in the book of Polish names by Sophie Hodorowicz Knab which is the only book I found with anything about derivations; the other two are just lists
it also gave Marina as an alternative to Maryna
DeleteGah, I should have realised. After all, 'miecz' is sword and it means a person who gains glory/fame with a sword.
DeleteHm, Marina is considered snobbish in comparison to homely, familiar Maryna. At least now. I do not know how it was in the 18th c.
Deleteone of the words in my active Polish vocabulary along with szabla, szyszak and various items of clothing :D
DeleteI've changed it anyway. How interesting, to the English eye Maryna is the more pretentious - which probably influenced my original choice. Putting y in place of a homely i was popular when I was gruwing up of giving a name 'distinction' and to me is redolent of someone with blue collar parents clawing their way into white collar life. how interesting it is how experience colours one's prejudices. I was of the generation where Sharon, Karen and Darren were fashionable [f-f-m] and were definitely names of the louder and more vulgar upper working class along with Shaun, Wayne, Dean, Kevin and Marvin for boys, Dawn, Sonya and Lynsey for girls.
the pretentious would be Amelya, Lynda, Maryssa, Alysia or Alicya and Sharyn
DeleteWell, I think it is because often foreign syllable 'ri' is usually transformed to 'ry'. Not only in names of people, but, for example, 'marihuana' is commonly called 'marycha'.
DeleteI thought y denoted a different i sound variant than i (y being like i in 'sit' and i like a short version of the higher pitched sound in 'heat')? Or is it just an ortography question?
DeleteWell, i is pronounced like 'i' in 'meet', 'j' like 'y' in 'yes', and y like 'y' in 'rhythm'. I found an article for foreigners about Polish alphabet: https://culture.pl/en/article/a-foreigners-guide-to-the-polish-alphabet
Deleteit's perfectly logical to be y in Polish ... just overcoming 50 years of cultural imagery and prejudice in my head lol
DeleteBtw, did I tell you that with szabla and szyszak you have also two Hungarian words? With different ortography but similar pronunciation and meaning, I assume (helmet and a type of sword)!
DeleteYay, I can go to war multilingually ... LOL
DeleteIrene -if I understand correctly, Marina doesn't sound exactly the same as Maryna. Maybe Sarah will correct me, but when the English change i to y trying to be classy (resulting in pretentious) the sound doesn't change, or does it? English i sounds often like y (rhythm) anyway. Anyone interested in allophones?
Deleteyou're right, the sound of y used as a vowel in English is identical to an i.
Deletehehe yes, but I probably know more about allosaurus
At one time (when my children were in kindergarden) I told them invented stories about kid dinosaurs (or is it chicks? cubs?) who went exploring together. Carnivores and herbivores all friends together, of course. Not with the one who steals dino eggs though! I think there was a really big bad tempered old T-Rex or allosaur the kids somehow made friends with and he became their wise friend. A pity I did not write them down.
Deletedefinitely a pity! heh maybe they will come to you again ...
DeleteHelena is a possibility. I lose the punning nickname Gracja but that is tough
ReplyDeleteHm, I like 'Gryfina'. It is the equivalent of Agrippina. Gryfina was a Princess of Kraków, and publicly accused her husband of being impotent.
DeleteIt should be "Aleksandra" instead of "Alexandra". Did you know that Wojtul is a diminutive of Wojciech? It should be "Piekarska" instead of "Piekarsksa" and "Paulina" instead of "Pawlina".
ReplyDeletethat was a slip ...
DeleteYes, I know he's another Wojciech but I keep them straighter in my own head if I use diminutives. I hadn't changed the ruddy pictures. Ok, will sort them.
I was inclining towards Gryfina - the name of an independently minded lady
I just noticed that the last family tree has Korneliusz instead of Eugeniusz (brother of Zbigniew).
ReplyDeleteoh nuts! thanks ..
DeleteI'll post an extended set of trees as well before moving on to Dance of Ravens, the third in the trilogy
Delete